Buying on CH online shops with CHF credit card, still getting fees added?!

[OxygeN]

Hi.
I've read in the past week that people buying from zalando.ch with credit card had to pay additional 2.5% for conversion fees. What's this shit about? Apparently, the reason stated by the bank is the fact that the transaction is done by some non-CH company, but WTF??? I as a consumer don't give a sh*** about what companies do the money movements in the background: I am in Switzerland, I buy from a shop in CH and I pay with CHF, therefore I don't want to pay any additional fees.

Is this something you already knew about?
Did this happen to someone here on the forum as well?
What potential countermeasures do we, as consumers, have?

 

[Baptiste Wicht]

Hi,

It's always been the case that you would pay a conversion fee when using a payment processor outside of Switzerland. So some websites in .ch still had a fee in CHF because of that. It's a very bad rule because it's difficult to know beforehand.

And it seems that Swisscard is taking that rule to the extreme and looking at the company itself and not only the payment processor. I could not find any recent Zalando transaction on my credit card, but I do not think this is the case for Cembra.

The only thing we can do is stop using these companies entirely if we don't think what they are doing is good.

 

[OxygeN]

Hi,

It's always been the case that you would pay a conversion fee when using a payment processor outside of Switzerland. So some websites in .ch still had a fee in CHF because of that. It's a very bad rule because it's difficult to know beforehand.

This is the very problem. So one should actually ask Zalando or any other online store in advance about how they treat the CHF-transactions - which is simply non-feasible as probably nobody in the servicedesk will be knowing this.

The only thing we can do is stop using these companies entirely if we don't think what they are doing is good.

You mean avoid using Swisscard, Certo, Neon and all these? Because I don't think it's (for example) Zalando's fault to be using non-Swiss payment processors: in the end, each company has to look for its own profit and this encompasses also the payment providers they choose.

What still baffles me: if I pay in CHF I don't care if that money is put into the seller company's account in a different currency. This shouldn't bother the customer. And it's unfair to apply these hidden fees to customers.

 

[Baptiste Wicht]

You mean avoid using Swisscard, Certo, Neon and all these? Because I don't think it's (for example) Zalando's fault to be using non-Swiss payment processors: in the end, each company has to look for its own profit and this encompasses also the payment providers they choose.

At least, stop using all that do charge a large fee abroad. I am not saying it's a good solution, but I don't see much else we can do. The system has been like that for a long time.

 

[BPH]

At least, stop using all that do charge a large fee abroad. I am not saying it's a good solution, but I don't see much else we can do. The system has been like that for a long time.

Agreed, the rules that the fee is added even to CHF transactions has been in place for most cards for along time, but I think I agree to one of your earlier statements. It appears Swisscard is taking this to the extreme, since about October.

Previously I had no issues with payments for Zalando and others, but since October, I have seen it happen for Zalando, Netflix and Spotify. Interestingly, not for Apple even though the address is also listed as 'non-CH'. Seems very unclear on what is no done, no way to see as a customer in advance, if I will be charged or not. Extremely unclear and unsatisfying.

So, I am literally only using the cards to pay for brick-and-mortar stores in Switzerland and for everything else using card with no foreign fees. Makes me question having the cards in general, could simplify my banking a lot by just cancelling them.

 

[OxygeN]

Previously I had no issues with payments for Zalando and others, but since October, I have seen it happen for Zalando, Netflix and Spotify. Interestingly, not for Apple even though the address is also listed as 'non-CH'. Seems very unclear on what is no done, no way to see as a customer in advance, if I will be charged or not. Extremely unclear and unsatisfying.

I never had issues on Zalando paying with my UBS credit card. But last time I made a purchase on Zalando online was at least 1 year ago.

So, I am literally only using the cards to pay for brick-and-mortar stores in Switzerland and for everything else using card with no foreign fees. Makes me question having the cards in general, could simplify my banking a lot by just cancelling them.

Which cards are you using "for everything else", where you don't pay foreign fees?

 

[BPH]

I never had issues on Zalando paying with my UBS credit card. But last time I made a purchase on Zalando online was at least 1 year ago.

Started for me in October with the Swisscard cashback, before never had any issues

Which cards are you using "for everything else", where you don't pay foreign fees?

Mainly now just using radicant. Had neon for a while. Another option I am considering is going back to the Cumulus card as an option to the Swisscard cashback.

 

[OxygeN]

Thanks for your comment, @BPH
I'm looking to leave UBS and I was considering Yuh! or Certo - the latter because of the 1% cashback on 3 shops (e.g. Denner, Migros and Aldi).

So with Radicant you don't pay any fees if buying from a shop which uses non-CHF payment operators? Same with Neon?

 

[BPH]

Thanks for your comment, @BPH
I'm looking to leave UBS and I was considering Yuh! or Certo - the latter because of the 1% cashback on 3 shops (e.g. Denner, Migros and Aldi).

So with Radicant you don't pay any fees if buying from a shop which uses non-CHF payment operators? Same with Neon?

Tried out certo when they came out, but really did not like the app and lack of e-bill. I believe Certo also has the foreign shop fee.

Yuh! is certainly a well polished app and had it for a long time. Especially liked the multi-currency account, but not a fan of the high FX fee (0.95%) when you do not have the currency in your account.

Radicant is like neon in not adding any markup when you buy with the debit card and currently still has the highest interest (and no need to move to a saving / spaces place). Additionally, since they added the EUR account just this month, do not need Yuh! anymore. App is not as polished as Yuh, though

 

[OxygeN]

Tried out certo when they came out, but really did not like the app and lack of e-bill. I believe Certo also has the foreign shop fee.

Yeah, well: Certo is purely a credit card company, they don't offer anything more (no LSV, no eBill, no TWINT).

Yuh! is certainly a well polished app and had it for a long time. Especially liked the multi-currency account, but not a fan of the high FX fee (0.95%) when you do not have the currency in your account.

I would use Yuh! just for CHF savings account (0.25% interest rate is pretty low, but I'm not sure UBS' 0.45% is in the end more, as it might be "pre-tax"). Of course, I'd be putting my salary on it as well, along with eBill and TWINT. I'd like to replace UBS 1:1 with Yuh! (or some other).

Radicant is like neon in not adding any markup when you buy with the debit card and currently still has the highest interest (and no need to move to a saving / spaces place). Additionally, since they added the EUR account just this month, do not need Yuh! anymore. App is not as polished as Yuh, though

Radicant, like Alpian, just didn't yet lower their interest rates - but guaranteed they will go down as well. Interesting to know that they added EUR account - I have my EUR account on Wise and on Revolut (but I mainly use Wise). When I do CHF/EUR conversions, I either use www.cambiavalute.ch (referral link) which has a good exchange rate (I think last time I checked it was 99,9% identical to Wise's) or if I need cash in my hands, I stop at a gas station at the border.

 

[BPH]

Yeah, well: Certo is purely a credit card company, they don't offer anything more (no LSV, no eBill, no TWINT).

My point is, that Certo also does not offer e-bill to pay the credit card bill, unlike all the others (Swisscard, Viseca, etc.), you have to either pay by LSV or log into the app to download the invoice and then pay manually

I would use Yuh! just for CHF savings account (0.25% interest rate is pretty low, but I'm not sure UBS' 0.45% is in the end more, as it might be "pre-tax"). Of course, I'd be putting my salary on it as well, along with eBill and TWINT. I'd like to replace UBS 1:1 with Yuh! (or some other).

Overall, I think you is as full-featured and account as you would want it.

Radicant, like Alpian, just didn't yet lower their interest rates - but guaranteed they will go down as well. Interesting to know that they added EUR account - I have my EUR account on Wise and on Revolut (but I mainly use Wise). When I do CHF/EUR conversions, I either use www.cambiavalute.ch (referral link) which has a good exchange rate (I think last time I checked it was 99,9% identical to Wise's) or if I need cash in my hands, I stop at a gas station at the border.

Main difference is, for Yuh! you need to put the money into a Savings project to gain interest, meaning out of your day-to-day account. With Radicant, that's not the case. Interest is earned on any balance. Radicant is like Yuh! changing it's interest rate to 0.25% as of 1 Jan 2025 .. no difference there

 

[OxygeN]

Apparently this is hitting Spotify users as well... which ain't bad per se: Spotify is rubbish and is the worst that could happen to an artist, therefore leaving Spotify as a customer (and eventually as an artist) is the only way to go!

 

[Manneke]

I have had the same experience recently ordering some calendars on Optimal Print with my Swiss Cashback card. It is very deceiving as optimalprint website ends with .ch and all prices are shown in Chf. But somehow the statement shows that they are based in Oslo and that there is 2.5% fee for international transaction.
Anyway, you have to look at your credit card statements very carefully. And now I also understand why they can afford 1% Cashback on the AMEX; even if you are very careful not to use the card abroad as me, you still get screwed up at some point. And I am sure there are many people not paying attention and using the card abroad which generates all these high fees.

 

[OxygeN]

Sad to hear that it's hitting many online shops :-(

 

[BPH]

Sad to hear that it's hitting many online shops :-(

And what is even worse, there is no real pattern behind it as well. Basically making it impossible to know in advance if you get hit by the fee or not.

I have to sets of Cashback cards (one jointly with the wife and one for me personally). Paid with each of them within a few days at the same shop, everything the same, but one card I got charged the 2.5%, on the other I did not. This complete lack of transparency is beyond ridiculous. Makes me really start to question if the 200-300 CHF cashback are really worth it.

 

[Manneke]

And what is even worse, there is no real pattern behind it as well. Basically making it impossible to know in advance if you get hit by the fee or not.

I have to sets of Cashback cards (one jointly with the wife and one for me personally). Paid with each of them within a few days at the same shop, everything the same, but one card I got charged the 2.5%, on the other I did not. This complete lack of transparency is beyond ridiculous. Makes me really start to question if the 200-300 CHF cashback are really worth it.

That post of you made me check out some old bills, as I have already ordered from Optimal Print in the past: one year ago there was no fee applied, however last month they applied a 2.5% fee?!? It is indeed completely arbitrary.

I think the take-home message is to avoid paying with the Cashback cards when ordering from online shops that are not the usual big swiss suspects (by this I mean Digitec/Galaxus, Migros, Coop, Brack, SBB, Ticketcorner etc.). Any online shop which may potentially operate in different countries should be avoided (even if it ends with .ch)

 

[OxygeN]

I think the take-home message is to avoid paying with the Cashback cards when ordering from online shops that are not the usual big swiss suspects (by this I mean Digitec/Galaxus, Migros, Coop, Brack, SBB, Ticketcorner etc.). Any online shop which may potentially operate in different countries should be avoided (even if it ends with .ch)

To me it sounds like an additional (counter)measure against Swiss buying abroad. The confederation lowered the tax free import amount starting from 01.01.2025: from CHF 300.- per person, down to CHF 150.-
This is done to keep people from going over the border to buy whatever they need. Germany has apparently already created an app to help people getting back their VAT without having to go back to the store again (I might imagine it's similar to Global Blue).
Sad times ahead!

 

[gaijin]

To me it sounds like an additional (counter)measure against Swiss buying abroad.

Don't know how broad you actually mean this. But of course, tarifs are a way to regulate import of goods into a country. The US is no exception in this case in spite of all the current noise from that corner of the world. Borders in general are a way to hinder free flow of people and good. So in that sense, yes of course, it is a counter measure.
But in a very narrow sense I don't see any connection between the recent lowering of the VAT Freigrenze (I don't think that was a move in the right direction) and the fx fees on credit card purchases for 'Swiss' shops abroad.

 

[Manneke]

To me it sounds like an additional (counter)measure against Swiss buying abroad. The confederation lowered the tax free import amount starting from 01.01.2025: from CHF 300.- per person, down to CHF 150.-
This is done to keep people from going over the border to buy whatever they need. Germany has apparently already created an app to help people getting back their VAT without having to go back to the store again (I might imagine it's similar to Global Blue).
Sad times ahead!

I don't think that these two things are correlated at all. The tax free import amount change was a measure of the federal government. Swisscard has nothing to do with the federal government, they are just a private company who wants to make money. I assume Swisscard found a new way (or loophole) to make more money by considering these transactions in CHF on .ch sites with a foreign siege as foreign transactions. Maybe too many people "optimized" the usage of the Swisscard Cashback cards (by this I mean use only the Cashback in Switzerland and use a second card like Revolut for transactions abroad) and they need to recoup the 1% cashback in one way or the other. Don't think for one second that Swisscard Cashback and AMEX are losing money by giving you 1% back; they are making money (in one way or the other).

 

[OxygeN]

I understand you guys not directly seeing any correlation - and in fact, there is none clearly identifiable.
I don't want to sound "conspiraceous" - it's just that in this world there are so many things which we don't know companies have agreements on, that it's at least legitimate to think that there might be some sort of "pressure" from the state towards credit card systems (I'm not referring to SwissCard - it happens also to UBS and many other credit cards).