IBKR vs. SAXO as longtime savings vehicle / selling fees IBKR unclear

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nikee

New member
Hi all

I am planning on saving a good portion of our disposable income into a simple ETF strategy (4 ETF products; one on XETR, one on SWX, one on NYSE_ARCA, one on NASDAQ). I have opened accounts both with SAXO and IBKR. Currently I am running calculations comparing the two brokers; for buying and holding IBKR seems a lot cheaper.

But what about selling? One scenario is to sell everything at once in 20 years. As far as I understood with SAXO it's 0.08% + FX 0.25% + Swiss stamp duty (0.15% or 0.075%). But with IBKR I fail to understand what the selling fees for positions of > 500k CHF will be. Can anybody help?

Maybe my question is related to this thread: https://forum.thepoorswiss.com/threads/huge-fees-on-ibkr.191/

Another strategy is to liquidate gradually after retirement - still I don't fully understand how I should calculate the fees in that case.

The article https://thepoorswiss.com/ib-fixed-or-tiered-pricing/ is a partial approach, since I think the graphs are mis-labeled ("Buy" and "Withdrawal" in the same graph?), also for Euronext there is no selling graph.

Thanks!

Nikee
 
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What I found in the meantime is a calculator based on Excel: https://members.bearbulltraders.com...nteractive-Brokers-Commission-Calculator.xlsx

Looking at how it is built and playing around with some numbers, I think I got the IBKR "catch": If you want to buy or sell lots of cheap shares the fees grow exponentially (but capped at 1% of the transaction value).

Example (corrected) of two transactions with same total value of $840'000:
a) 105'000 shares @ $8 = fees of $525 (!)
b) 1'050 shares @ $800 = fees of $5 and 25 cents

With ever cheaper stocks, the fees are capped at 1% of transaction value per IBKR price list.

BR
 
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nikee said:
Example of two transactions with same total value of $840'000:
a) 10'500 shares @ $8 = fees of $525 (!)
b) 1'050 shares @ $800 = fees of $5 and 25 cents
Click to expand...
There seems to be a typo in your example since the two lines don't both yield 840'000. The first line (a) is only 84'000 while the second is truly 840'000.
 
Baptiste Wicht said:
There seems to be a typo in your example since the two lines don't both yield 840'000. The first line (a) is only 84'000 while the second is truly 840'000.
Click to expand...
Well spotted - here's the full & correct example:

Example of two transactions with same total value of $840'000:
a) 105'000 shares @ $8 = fees of $525 (!)
b) 1'050 shares @ $800 = fees of $5 and 25 cents
 
The difference is quite impressive between a cheap share and an expensive share.
For most people, selling will be done in tiny sets rather than huge sets I think.
 
Baptiste Wicht said:
The difference is quite impressive between a cheap share and an expensive share.
For most people, selling will be done in tiny sets rather than huge sets I think.
Click to expand...
It is impressive indeed. Just for completeness sake, the "Tiered" fee-scheme at IBKR would be less expensive for this example, at $126. Also, selling in chunks does obviously not change the total sum of fees.

For ETF which are traded at prices of 100 USD/CHF/EUR and above fees with IBKR are very low.
 
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nikee said:
Well spotted - here's the full & correct example:

Example of two transactions with same total value of $840'000:
a) 105'000 shares @ $8 = fees of $525 (!)
b) 1'050 shares @ $800 = fees of $5 and 25 cents
Click to expand...
Thanks for doing these calculations! Would you mind including Saxo in your example? I think it's very valuable to directly compare these two banks. Does selling in tiny sets or huge chunks make a difference on Saxo?
 
Here's the same transaction on SAXO:

Swiss stamp duty Swiss securities 0.075%
Swiss stamp duty foreign securities 0.150%

SAXO transaction fees 0.08%
SAXO FX fees 0.25%

Buy / Sell (Foreign Security) USD 840’000 (assuming 1 USD = 1 CHF)
Transaction fee CHF 672
FX fee CHF 2’100
Stamp duty foreign securities CHF 1’260
SAXO fees total CHF 4’032

Buy / Sell (Swiss Security) CHF 840’000
Transaction fee CHF 672
FX fee CHF -
Stamp duty Swiss securities CHF 630
SAXO fees total CHF 1’302

So with SAXO you pay for Swiss securities 0.155% and foreign securities 0.488%.

Here's the reason (translated from here) why IBKR as foreign broker won't charge you stamp duty: "In order to keep the Swiss financial centre attractive despite the internationalization of securities trading and competition from foreign stock exchanges, the turnover tax has been subject to several revisions in recent years."

Meaning: Foreign brokers (like IBKR) don't have to pay stamp duty when trading Swiss securities on Swiss exchanges. Interestingly (for our case) this also applies to Swiss clients of IBKR, that won't have to pay stamp duty.
 
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