Pillar 3a question

[sevsevsev]

Hello guys

Im 26 years old and married and finally in a financial state where i can max out my wifes and my 3a pillar. I settled with viac and am happy with the performance. I started a new job last year and a worker benefit is a discount on our own 3a solution. the performance is good, trusted brand etc. we get 15% discount on the maximum amount. the only catch is that since we are an insurance, i cant have a fully invested split. i have to leave 10% in "security" or whatever. is the calculation if its worth it (the 10% that is not invested) that simple: i get 15% off on 7258 which means i could reinvest all of that money monthly into an etf im already building anyway (VT) and cover for the 10% missing in my 3a like that? and still profit off the compound interest effect?

Thanks for any advice

 

[Baptiste Wicht]

Hi

I would personally not take this offer. 15% of 7258 is definitely nice, of course. But for me, it's not enough to lock you into a life insurance product for the next 40 years. Even if you leave this company, you will likely still be under contract and you will also likely not have the discount.

Insurance companies always say the performance is good when selling these contracts. But once it's time to withdrawing, the performance is nowhere to be seen.

 

[gaijin]

to lock you into a life insurance product

Is that what @sevsevsev is saying? I was interpreting 'since we are an insurance i cant have a fully invested split.' merely that @sevsevsev is working at an insurance company. Does the 3a solution include an insurance component?

 

[sevsevsev]

as far as i know the life insurance product part is optional. the 10% part in security isnt for life insurance, it actually is for money that sits on a low interest account like 1.5% and cant be invested (i think because of regulations since we arent a bank and arent allowed to offer "pure investment" products? idk) i will have a talk with the internal consultant soon.

by good performance i mean that the historical performance (atleast for the year of 2024 that i can compare with my viac global 100 performance) was actually a tiny bit better than my viac performance (9%+).

very valid point with the locking me in for a longer time and also thoughts about the future if i would change jobs. i will keep it in mind

 

[Baptiste Wicht]

as far as i know the life insurance product part is optional. the 10% part in security isnt for life insurance, it actually is for money that sits on a low interest account like 1.5% and cant be invested (i think because of regulations since we arent a bank and arent allowed to offer "pure investment" products? idk) i will have a talk with the internal consultant soon.

In that case, it's not so bad. You just want to make sure this is really the case and that they are not locking you in.

 

[sevsevsev]

i have had the talk with the consultant. since start of this year, they also offer a 100 - 0 split, which is great. i dont have to take any insurance part if i dont want to and they cover 15% of my yearly amount im paying into 3a. Sounds very good, no catch. I will study the factsheet for the available funds but it seems solid.

the only thing im still thinking about is: there is an option that would cost around 15 chf per month (30% discount as long as i work there, will go up to around 21 if i dont work there anymore). i could remove the option for the next year tho. that would make them match my 3a payments in case i would be on Disability Insurance (DI) / IV. that amount will be missing in my 3a and cant be compensated for with other payments afaik. whats your opinion on that option? its not a nice thing to think about but i do think it would be life changing if such a case ever arose.

but yeah, if i opt for this i will be locked in. but if the fund is solid and they offer a 100 - 0 split, is there even a disadvantage compared to viac (besides managing cost)

 

[gaijin]

I get the impression that your company is not very transparent since there are so many options with so many twists. I would read the fine print very carefully (which you are doing already).

 

[sevsevsev]

So I have an update

After finding all the fees i have the following listing (please correct me if im wrong, especially on viac):

VIAC: 0.31% administration fee and 0.41% fee for the fund itself --> 0.72% p.a.

Insurance (ill come clean and just name the AXA tbh): administration fee + fund fee --> 0.96% p.a.

I get 15% off, meaning my monthly payment to max 3a out is only 514 vs 604.70. I do not have to purchase any insurance product and i can have a 100 percent invested split. Only downside is just if i switch, im locked into the AXA contract. Even if I stop working here and lose my 15% reduction, which would obviously make it a worse deal than VIAC.
I would love to calculate for how long i have to work at AXA to make the slightly higher yearly fee worth it. However, i have no idea how to do that and chatgpt isnt being much of a help so far. im planning to invest the monthly 90.7 that I save into my ETF portfolio (VT only 500 CHF monthly)

That is the fund in question: https://funds.axa-im.ch/en/professi...lobal-equity-chf-s-distribution-chf/#overview

What do you guys think about it? I feel like its an okay deal if I plan to stay at AXA for some time (which I definitely do but you never know what happens). Im a bit of a scarred child since i had my first ever 3a deal at swiss life with shitty insurance products so i really want to make sure im not making a bad deal again lol.

 

[Baptiste Wicht]

VIAC: 0.31% administration fee and 0.41% fee for the fund itself --> 0.72% p.a.

That's actually a total of 0.41% for VIAC 3a, not 0.72%.

VIAC 3a Review 2025 - Pros & Cons - The Poor Swiss

VIAC is the first of many digital third pillars, offering low fees and high returns. Find all advantages and disadvantages of VIAC, in this review.

thepoorswiss.com

I get 15% off, meaning my monthly payment to max 3a out is only 514 vs 604.70. I do not have to purchase any insurance product and i can have a 100 percent invested split. Only downside is just if i switch, im locked into the AXA contract. Even if I stop working here and lose my 15% reduction, which would obviously make it a worse deal than VIAC.

15% off is indeed a huge return. If you really get no insurance product and a 100% invested product, this sounds good.

I don't think you are truly locked out. It's a 3a contract, you could break it after you stop working at AXA.

That is the fund in question: https://funds.axa-im.ch/en/professi...lobal-equity-chf-s-distribution-chf/#overview

The fund itself looks decent and the ongoing charges are fine.
The only problem I see is the entry and exit charges. You will lose 3% of everything that goes in and 3% of everything that goes out. This will play a significant role towards reducing your returns.

 

[sevsevsev]

That's actually a total of 0.41% for VIAC 3a, not 0.72%.

VIAC 3a Review 2025 - Pros & Cons - The Poor Swiss

VIAC is the first of many digital third pillars, offering low fees and high returns. Find all advantages and disadvantages of VIAC, in this review.

thepoorswiss.com

15% off is indeed a huge return. If you really get no insurance product and a 100% invested product, this sounds good.

I don't think you are truly locked out. It's a 3a contract, you could break it after you stop working at AXA.


The fund itself looks decent and the ongoing charges are fine.
The only problem I see is the entry and exit charges. You will lose 3% of everything that goes in and 3% of everything that goes out. This will play a significant role towards reducing your returns.

Thank you for the reply! I will read your review again to understand why the admin fee doesnt apply for VIAC.

Yes I can break it, but isnt there always a penalty for that? That is what scarred me with SwissLife lol. But that is a part that I didnt really understand yet, i will have to reread the contract again. I just know theres a fixed runtime for it so i expected a penalty for "leaving early".

In Context of the product that I will have, there will not be any fees for buying or selling.

 

[Baptiste Wicht]

Yes I can break it, but isnt there always a penalty for that?

Usually, yes.

In Context of the product that I will have, there will not be any fees for buying or selling.

That's good news.

In the end, we can't take the decision for you. If all you said is correct and you get 15% off, no exit/entry costs and everything is invested, it sounds like a good option, despite the relatively high costs. But if you have doubts about the company, maybe keep the simple way out and use Finpension or VIAC.