SARL to FIRE without stress?

[BRiquet]

Dear all,

I am about to FIRE (almost there financially) although 2 things are giving me afterthoughts:

1. I am on a B permis, and if I quit my job I am not sure I’d be allowed to stay in Swiss once my Permis reaches its renewal date (in ~4 years). For a number of reasons I am planning to retire in Switzerland (Geneva) - I am from the EU originally.
2. I bought an apartment and I have a mortgage with UBS. Here as well, will the bank give me an unfriendly phone call if I quit my job and they notice that my salary doesnt come in any more?

I’d love the thoughts of the community on the above, for now I was considering starting a company (SARL or else - the object would be to manage my family wealth), with the following advantages:

1. Officially I have a job (for the authorities and the Bank).
2. If needed I can play with my salary level (here again, to reassure the Banker, and also if I need a new mortgage or to rend an apartment in a few years)
3. I won’t fear anymore to be rebranded as ‘professional trader’, I’ll just invest the way I want inside the SARL.

This comes with constraints (extra costs/taxation/complexity) though so I’d do it only if really worth it.

Thanks a lot in advance for your thoughts & ideas!

 

[Baptiste Wicht]

Hi and welcome

I am on a B permis, and if I quit my job I am not sure I’d be allowed to stay in Swiss once my Permis reaches its renewal date (in ~4 years). For a number of reasons I am planning to retire in Switzerland (Geneva) - I am from the EU originally.

Can you convert it to a B permit?

I bought an apartment and I have a mortgage with UBS. Here as well, will the bank give me an unfriendly phone call if I quit my job and they notice that my salary doesnt come in any more?

Probably not in between the renewal date, but this will be an issue when you are renewing the contract.

You could already move your main bank to another bank and continue paying from there your mortgage. At least you will have a good excuse for four years.

I’d love the thoughts of the community on the above, for now I was considering starting a company (SARL or else - the object would be to manage my family wealth), with the following advantages:

I am not convinced it's a good idea to have a fake company. You don't have a job if you don't have customers, no? I don't think this will work.

If you are FIRE, you have a significant amount of money. You will need to discuss with your bank what your options are for renewing your contract without an income.

 

[BRiquet]

I am not convinced it's a good idea to have a fake company

I'd be curious to know if someone with legal/fiscal background would see it differently but in my mind it would be 100% legit: I'd be paying my taxes, etc. I guess its not much different from an independent trader who trades with his own capital inside a company/structure? Which brings me to the big advantage I see: No more debate on whether I am at risk of being labeled pro trader due to my financial decisions: I'd be a pro trader, no debate

 

[Baptiste Wicht]

I guess its not much different from an independent trader who trades with his own capital inside a company/structure?

In this case, that's a fair point.

But that would be expensive, no?
* You will have to pay capital gains inside the company
* You will have to pay all social contributions on the salary you give yourself
* You will have to pay income taxes

And since you have your own company, the bank may ask for details on the company itself since you employ yourself and they may see that you are not generating much income (only capital gains).

But I would also be interested in a fiscal point of view

 

[Max]

I am about to FIRE (almost there financially) although 2 things are giving me afterthoughts:

1. I am on a B permis, and if I quit my job I am not sure I’d be allowed to stay in Swiss once my Permis reaches its renewal date (in ~4 years). For a number of reasons I am planning to retire in Switzerland (Geneva) - I am from the EU originally.

If you are an EU citizen, it shouldn't be a problem if you can prove you have sufficient financial means. There is an agreement on free movement of persons between Switzerland and the EU.

Guidelines and comments concerning the ordinance on the free movement of persons
6 Stay without gainful employment
6.2.1 Pensioners and Other Persons Without Gainful Employment

Regulations concerning the free movement of persons without gainful employment apply to the following categories: retirees, persons in training (students, continuing education, etc.), and other persons without gainful employment (e.g., pensioners but also job seekers). This also includes recipients of services (stays for medical treatment, spa treatments, etc.).

These persons have the right to reside in another Contracting State with their family members (Chapter II.7), provided they have sufficient financial means for themselves and their family members to meet their needs and have taken out health and accident insurance covering all risks.

With the exception of persons in training, these persons must prove that theyhave sufficient financial means so as not to have to resort to social assistance (Art. 24 para. 1 Annex 1 ALCP)118. The CSIAS guidelines are decisivewith regard to calculation standards119.

Stays without gainful employment are not subject to the maximum numbers. Therestrictions on granting authorization provided for in Art. 23 to 25 OASA are not applicable

6.2.3 Sufficient Financial Means

In principle, financial resources are deemed sufficient if a Swiss citizen in the same situation would not be able to access social assistance.121 To assess the situation, reference should be made to the guidelines of the Swiss Conference of Social Welfare Institutions (CSIAS guidelines) (Art. 16 para. 1 OLCP).122 Thus, identical standards are applied throughout Switzerland. Such standardization is essential because EU/EFTA residence permits are valid throughout Switzerland.

6.2.4 Validity Period

The validity period of the initial residence permit issued to persons without gainful employment is generally five years. Exceptionally, the authorities may request renewal of the residence permit after two years (Art. 17 OLCP) when they deem it necessary. If the authorities find that the financial resources are no longer sufficient or that health insurance coverage is inadequate, the permit may be revoked or its extension refused (Art. 24 para. 1 Annex I ALCP and ch. II.8.2.1).